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Author Topic: Vitalsecurity rejoins ASAP  (Read 7723 times)
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paperghost
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« on: March 14, 2005, 12:31:54 PM »

Spywareinfo's March newsletter has, in my opinion, stated a number of untruths regarding my site and my integrity as a writer.

I'm sure you are all by now aware of the situation and what it entails.

HOWEVER -

In the spirit of ASAP, I would like to state that I am willing to work with Maddoktor on this and avoid the need for legal interference, which is not a road I would wish to go down if at all possible.

Though a very real eventuality, I do not feel two antispyware sites should be seen to go to court over something that could (still) be salvaged and give the makers of spyware and malware a field day.

In that spirit, I have rescinded my resignation, apologise fully for any distress caused to members and visitors of ASAP sites and look to work with Mike on resolving this one way or another. As Maddoktor has said - we can fix this.
 
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MadameX
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2005, 12:37:25 PM »

I am shocked and devastated. Sad

 
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Maddoktor2
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2005, 01:06:21 PM »

PG, I'm very sorry to hear of this decision, but will of course honour it, as it's your choice - please shoot me a PM?

Hopefully, this can all be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
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Jackb
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Date Registered:March 14, 2005, 01:05:47 PM
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2005, 01:09:20 PM »

If you read the label, it does advise against inhaling the fumes from the sharpie. Kindly put it down before posting.
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Avohir
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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2005, 02:51:32 PM »

are things REALLY so slow in the malware department that you feel you need something else to fight?  It strikes me that all the indignant outrage and energy you're expending on this could be far better spent targeting the real enemy...  :unsure:  
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paperghost
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2005, 03:00:59 PM »

Quote
are things REALLY so slow in the malware department that you feel you need something else to fight?  It strikes me that all the indignant outrage and energy you're expending on this could be far better spent targeting the real enemy...  :unsure:
A valid point - however, considering my site was apparently already "targetted" by a member site that doesn't really matter too much now. Member of ASAP or not, my site will continue to run Smiley

Its just a shame it had to come to this.
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mitchshrader
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2005, 03:03:58 PM »

bleh. we have (2) issues.. one is 'Is it fair journalism to isolate Firefox and use a (specious) question about it's security to 'hook' readers'? (IMO no.) .. and is that libel (IMO, no).  

All further discussion is 'He said, then I said' sorta childish conflict.

Given that the discussion in sum promoted reader interest I suppose it had some value. Given that it's been beaten to death, GIVE IT A REST! fahchrisesakes..  :sick:

 
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paperghost
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2005, 03:15:01 PM »

hi Mitch - to be fair (from the SWI thread):

Quote
The title directly references the original source of the query (the tomcoyote forum) where the initial belief was that somehow Firefox was responsible for the install. As i actually pointed out on that thread, Java was responsible. But i took this slant for my piece, which seems perfectly reasonable given the origin of the first report of the infection.

Quote
All further discussion is 'He said, then I said' sorta childish conflict.

Well, it would be if Mike hadn't completely ignored every effort made by myself to address this and prevent this situation from occuring both in public and in private.

But if any other ASAP member site wants the risk of being dumped on by another member site without any apparent recourse then i have no idea where ASAP goes from here.

If one of the goals is to "bring all sites together to work together and to solve any differences in private, out of the public eye" then i have to ask - why didn't this happen?
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suzi
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2005, 03:30:39 PM »

I think that what Mike said was quite harsh and unnecessary, but perhaps he will re-think his stance.  I'd give it more time.  Sometimes Mike is away from Net access for a day or few days at the time.  I suppose it's possible he hasn't seen the reactions.  
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suzi
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2005, 07:31:06 PM »

http://spywarewarrior.com/viewtopic.php?p=...ighlight=#67920

fao Dok and  ASAP members,i've posted up another suggestion down at SWW.i invite all to read/participate and make your own minds up.
its commonsense!
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wawadave
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2005, 08:58:25 PM »

shame to see the elite spyware fighters getting devided up like this. not something i wished to see!!! :ph34r:  
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cnm
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2005, 09:40:41 PM »

I certainly regret this development..  Sad

However as I said Here
Quote
Honestly, I don't see where you or your site were accused of anything. "Related links" - that doesn't put you on one side or the other.

Wild accusatory emails are unfortunately a fact of life - Mike gets masses of them accusing him of creating spyware (because the word is in the site name, one supposes) and anything else they can somehow imagine.
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Roshi229
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« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2005, 09:41:02 PM »

As I have read this I have come to realize that my newfound membership with ASAP has now lost its "new car smell."

Although I am new to the teams, and new to the game I feel compelled to toss my opinion into the ring, as this seems to be the subject matter discussed... opinions.

I personally find a bad taste in my mouth that this could/would/did happen to two members who I have so highly regarded as leaders in my education. Furthermore i have modeled myself and my personal website (still undeclared until this point do to its infantile state. there's much more to come... this is the beginning.)

Tonight I find myself in fear of the day that spyware is not our biggest enemy, but rather the wars started in manners similar to this that cause the anti-crapware sites to disband and form sides. This divide would inevitably turn away those who NEED our help to find some "doesn't know yahoo from HJT" tech to "fix" their pc, charge them a whole bunch or money or any number of reasons we do what we do!!!

Thus I NOW CALL UPON ASAP!!!! It is by far apparent we need structure! I propose 1 site, set up for the management of all registered ASAP members, governed with checks and balances by All members of ASAP with an elected ADMIN COUNCIL. In my proposal this admin council could have certain VOTED powers to for MODERATION. Laws of ASAP's professionalism in the public eye shall be voted, and the organization of ASAP grow into something a member would be PROUD of putting on a resume'. As a young IT professional I admit I’m looking for an edge in corp. America as i start my career, this however is a distant second to my hatred of Spyware/malware and my desire for an organized effort against it.

I also see a value for one site to "archive" the efforts of our member sites, a searchable database so that any poor soul in need of help may search to verify a site is a true member of ASAP.

If we're going to do this, let’s do this right!!

Also, PG best of wishes no matter what the outcome, you will be missed (hopefully not for long) and your site shall remain in my favorites list.

I'll get off my soapbox for now, please post any response rather than email me as I open my suggestions for public opinion.

Sincerely,

Ken

edit**
since i have gotten no replies i will not double post...

cont. here i said the following

Quote
Shall we all take a lesson from Don Tapscott who said,

(((((
“Do well by doing good” sounds simple, maybe too simple. Isn’t that what preachers
have been telling us for thousands of years? Why is this any truer today than yesterday?
One reason: Today’s business environment depends on trust—and mandates
transparency—like never before."
)))))

That is from Chapter One of "The Naked Corporation: How the Age of Transparency Will Revolutionize Business"

ASAP is not in Business to make a profit or even to charge it's customers, however it is a business in the sence that our "customers" come to us for a service. This service is not being met properly IMO. in fact all this bickering is as much a Dis-service to our "customers" as it is a service. So please, let us come together to discuss a proper manner in wich we can resolve the situation put before us as a community, and provide ourselves and most importantly our "customers" with the open security that we/they deserve.
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paperghost
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2005, 01:07:32 AM »

Quote
I certainly regret this development..  Sad

However as I said Here
Quote
Honestly, I don't see where you or your site were accused of anything. "Related links" - that doesn't put you on one side or the other.

Wild accusatory emails are unfortunately a fact of life - Mike gets masses of them accusing him of creating spyware (because the word is in the site name, one supposes) and anything else they can somehow imagine.

And as I said here:

Quote
Aside from the Tomcoyote thread which - i say again - was not linked to or even mentioned in the newsletter - the only source of info on this story was my site!

And The Register article which covered it!

Now unless the Tomcoyote thread was choc full of journalists, the only possible sites he can be referring to are The Register and my own.

Cue quotes:

Quote
If you were also to believe that these accounts were written by competant journalists who have checked their facts, you would be wrong on both counts.


What journalists?

Quote
The situation to which these people are "reporting" (to use the term loosely) is about a malware installer using Sun's Java runtime environment.


What people?

Quote
What is truly sad here is that the news sites I mentioned earlier are portraying this as a spyware targeting and infecting the Firefox web browser. These news sites are doing a grave disservice to their readers by misleading them.


What sites?

Quote
The people publishing this libelous nonsense should be ashamed of themselves and should print a prominent correction.


What people?

And then directly below the above words, two links - two sites - the only sites that had anything on this.

The register and my site.

It also kind of gives the game away that after hearing the commotion, Mike updates the newsletter and inserts an "update" saying not to send the article authors hate mail.

Now - forgive me for being dense here - but seeing as I complained about recieving a ton of abuse mail and posts after he sent the newsletter - i ask again:

What article authors could he possibly be referring to other than either myself or John Leyden?


Why are you persisting in keeping this debate running publicly?

Would it not be more beneficial for Mike to discuss this?

If you insist on trying to "defend" the indefensible, please do what so many other people asked of you in the thread at Spywareinfo and post links to the "other sites" that ran the story.

That may be difficult, as my site is the only site that ran this story.

To date, I am still awaiting some sort of debate or discussion with Mike Healan - the longer he leaves it, the worse it looks. This could have been resolved quickly and withut fuss - instead, he chose to leave it.

To date, I have still had no contact from Mike - not an email, a pm - nothing.

I had to resign my site and membership from ASAP to actually get some sort of dialogue going on this awful chain of events - although the silence is currently deafening and the dialogue rather one sided. I had hoped this wouldn't be the case.

He also chose to send out a newsletter that defamed the name of a fellow ASAP site.

Let's not forget that.

I believe Moore said it best:

Quote
If this disappointing attack was not aimed directly at Paperghost , his site and his article referenced by the Register , then instead of having him listed as a related link it could perhaps say something like "Now for the real story" ...

If the comments in the newsletter are aimed at other sources , then why not include links to those sources or at least make it clearer that the vitalsecurity article isnt the intended target.

The newsletter in it's current form is clearly pointing a finger directly at Paperghost , and as he has pointed out in this thread quite well the accusations against his article are clearly wrong.

It's a shame because both Vitalsecurity and SpywareInfo are not the kinds of sites to feed people false information , and I would hope this will be resolved in a way that doesnt continue to suggest Paperghost is some kind of hack journalist and that his site delivers misleading information.

I dont think that is too much to ask.


EDIT - Roshi, thank you for the kind words.
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Andy_veal
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2005, 08:04:20 AM »

I hope this can be sorted.

For you dont deserve to leave ASAP, nor your site.
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